wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 14, 2024

0
View Point(視点)

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。
夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。
The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.
穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。

This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country”.
We often see the topic regading where the narrator is located.
In other words, where the view point is.
We(Japanese native speaker) automatically see the narrator in the train.
But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
narrator is outside and watching the train.
This is interesting.
Depending on a language, view point can be changed.


国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。
夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。
The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.
穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。

有名な川端康成の小説「雪国」の冒頭(ぼうとう)の部分だ。
よく話題になるのが語り手がどこにいるかだ。つまり視点はどこに
あるかだ。私たちが読むと、語り手は汽車のなかにいるように思える。
でも、良く知られた英文訳を読むと語り手は外から汽車を見ている
ようだ。これはおもしろい。
言葉によって視点の位置は変わるのだ。

Corrections

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。
夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。

The train came out of
/ emerged from the long tunnel into the snowy country.

We often see the topicsee how the topic of writing is often regading where the narrator is located.

In other words, where this/her view point/ point of view/ angle is.

We(, as Japanese native speaker)s, when reading the book, we would automatically seimagine the narrator being in the train.

ButHowever, when we read in the well-known English translation, it seems
narrator is outside and watching the train.

Depending on a language, view point can beof view changed differ.

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 28, 2024

0

Thank you very much for your corrections.

View Point(視点)

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。 夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。 The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.

穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。 This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country”.

We often see the topic regading wherThe topic often influences where we see the narrator is located.

I think this is the best sentence I could come up with from what I can understand from the examples.

In other words, where the view point is.

We (Japanese native speakers) automatically see the narrator in the train.

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
that the narrator is outside and watching the train.

This is interesting.

Depending onthe a language, the view point can be changed.

Also, view point is okay, but the literary term is "point of view" or "perspective"

Feedback

Is each language a little bit different? I think I can see something about the bottom (the end?) of the night turning white and a steam train stopping at a signal station? And then the Chinese version only has the part about the snow country being at the end of the tunnel, no mention of a train at all.

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 15, 2024

0

yes, I think Chinese translation is closer to the original Japanese....no subject in the sentence.
This is interesting......while you are using Japanese too much, have you felt your character has been changed ?

shorter's avatar
shorter

April 16, 2024

0

Oh yes, I get what you mean. I think my character changes a little depending on the language I am using, but especially Japanese since the language is much more polite than English or Chinese.

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 16, 2024

0

politeだけど、はっきりものを言わなくなった、なんて言われない?

shorter's avatar
shorter

April 16, 2024

0

少しかもしれないが、日本語のレベルがまだ足りないから言えることは限られている理由もあるね

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 16, 2024

0

日本語って会話などで「言い差し表現」が多いでしょう…stop saying in the middle of the sentence. For example,
「ほどほどになさったほうが....」「そうはおっしゃいましても....」「そうなんですけど....」etc. not to hurt other's feeling, stop talking....

shorter's avatar
shorter

April 21, 2024

0

そうだよね、悪くないと思う

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 21, 2024

0

私はね。ときどき「はっきり最後まで言えよ!」って思う時もある(笑)。

shorter's avatar
shorter

April 22, 2024

0

その気持ちもわかる(笑)

A View Point(視点)

ALSO POSSIBLE: A Japanese Winter Landscape (The original is somewhat vague; this title is more precise.)

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。 夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。 The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.

穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。


This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country
."

NOTE: In American English, the period *always* comes before end-quotes.

We often see the topic regading where the narrator isMORE NATURALLY: The narration gives a hint of the locatedion.

LOGIC: Is the *exact* location of "snow country" clear? (It seems to be somewhere in the Tohoku region of Japan, but am not clear where it was.)

In other words, where the view point isthe locale is clear.

We(Most Japanese native speaker) automatically see the narratorexpect to find the narrator of many works of fiction in the train.

But when we read theHowever, in the most well-known English translation, it seems ¶
the narrator is outside andwhile watching the train.

Depending on a language,MORE NATURALLY: Different translations often bring to light different view point can be changeds.

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 28, 2024

0

Thank you very much for your correction.

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。 夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。 The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.

穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。 This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country”.

We often see the topic regading where tThe narrator i's locatedion is often talked about.

話題になる in English is translated as "to be talked about" or "to become a popular topic of conversation." "The topic" is more general.

In other words, where the view point ishow we view the narrator's location.

We(Japanese native speaker) automatically sehen we read it in Japanese, it seems like the narrator ins inside the train.

A more natural translation of ように思える here is "it seems like."

I think "Japanese native speakers" is unnecessary to add. 私たち can mean anyone who can read Japanese ("we"), regardless of whether they're a Japanese native speaker.

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
like the narrator is outside and watching the train.

This is interesting.

Depending on athe language, view pointhow we view locations can be changed.

Feedback

Very interesting! I've never heard of this novel before, but I'd like to read it in both Japanese and English.

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 14, 2024

0

Thank you very much.
Kawabata is said to be a magician who wrote a variety of novels. I'm interested in his short story "片腕(One Arm)”.

View Point(視点)

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。 夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。 The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.

穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。 This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country”.

We often see the topic regarding where the narrator is located.

Simple mistake

In other words, where theis his view point? is.

I know this is a translation. However, in English grammar, this is not a complete sentence and is improper. I don't know Japanese, nor your intentions with learning English. I just thought I might warn you. If you were speaking casually then this is completely fine.
For the sake of making correction I turned it into a question so it makes more sense. I do not know Japanese so I am not sure if it is an accurate translation.

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
the narrator is outside and watching the train.

Simple mistake

Depending on a language, view points (or the view point) can be changed.

view point is awkward and not right. Change to plural or add "the" for the words to flow better like a native speaker.

Feedback

This is written very well. I applaud you for your efforts and accuracy. Please note that I do not speak Japanese. I don't know whether or not your translations are correct. However, I am making corrections to help improve your English grammar and flow to sound more like a native speaker. Thank you and good job!

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 14, 2024

0

To be honest, I'm a very old man and almost gave up improving my foreign languages.
When my wife and daughter came from China, they could have a great support from local Japanese volunteers.
So, I'm wondering if I could return for the kindness to persons who are trying to learn Japanese.....with my poor English and Chinese, ha ,ha, ha.

View Point(視点)

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。 夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。 The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.

穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。 This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country”.

We often see the topic regading where the narrator is located.

In other words, where thehis view point is from.

We(Japanese native speakers) automatically see the narrator in the train.

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
like the narrator is outside and watching the train.

This is interesting.

Depending on athe language, view point can beperspective is changed.

Feedback

I've been meaning to read this novel in Japanese for a long time now, considering it's so infamous. I've felt this would help me learn more about what's implied and understood, since I often struggle with this concept in Japanese. The way I (A non-native English speaker) reads the Japanese sentence, it doesn't really seem like the narrator is inside the tunnel. Maybe that's something that I should look into

wanderer's avatar
wanderer

April 14, 2024

0

Thank you for your correction and comments.
Actually, it's not clear what is the subject of「国境の....雪国であった」sentence. But we feel we are on the train and moving thru the tunnel.
I think English translation is good enough for Kawabata to get a Novel Prize.

View Point(視点)


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

A View Point(視点)

ALSO POSSIBLE: A Japanese Winter Landscape (The original is somewhat vague; this title is more precise.)

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。 夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。 The train came out of the long tunnel into the snow country.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

国境(くにざかい)の長いトンネルを抜けると雪国であった。
夜の底が白くなった。信号所に汽車が止まった。

The train came out of
/ emerged from the long tunnel into the snowy country.

穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。 This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country”.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

穿過県界長長的隧道,便是雪國。


This is the opening of Kawabata’s famous novel “Snow Country
."

NOTE: In American English, the period *always* comes before end-quotes.

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

We often see the topic regading where the narrator is located.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

We often see the topic regarding where the narrator is located.

Simple mistake

We often see the topic regading where tThe narrator i's locatedion is often talked about.

話題になる in English is translated as "to be talked about" or "to become a popular topic of conversation." "The topic" is more general.

We often see the topic regading where the narrator isMORE NATURALLY: The narration gives a hint of the locatedion.

LOGIC: Is the *exact* location of "snow country" clear? (It seems to be somewhere in the Tohoku region of Japan, but am not clear where it was.)

We often see the topic regading wherThe topic often influences where we see the narrator is located.

I think this is the best sentence I could come up with from what I can understand from the examples.

We often see the topicsee how the topic of writing is often regading where the narrator is located.

In other words, where the view point is.


In other words, where thehis view point is from.

In other words, where theis his view point? is.

I know this is a translation. However, in English grammar, this is not a complete sentence and is improper. I don't know Japanese, nor your intentions with learning English. I just thought I might warn you. If you were speaking casually then this is completely fine. For the sake of making correction I turned it into a question so it makes more sense. I do not know Japanese so I am not sure if it is an accurate translation.

In other words, where the view point ishow we view the narrator's location.

In other words, where the view point isthe locale is clear.

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

In other words, where this/her view point/ point of view/ angle is.

We(Japanese native speaker) automatically see the narrator in the train.


We(Japanese native speakers) automatically see the narrator in the train.

We(Japanese native speaker) automatically sehen we read it in Japanese, it seems like the narrator ins inside the train.

A more natural translation of ように思える here is "it seems like." I think "Japanese native speakers" is unnecessary to add. 私たち can mean anyone who can read Japanese ("we"), regardless of whether they're a Japanese native speaker.

We(Most Japanese native speaker) automatically see the narratorexpect to find the narrator of many works of fiction in the train.

We (Japanese native speakers) automatically see the narrator in the train.

We(, as Japanese native speaker)s, when reading the book, we would automatically seimagine the narrator being in the train.

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems narrator is outside and watching the train.


But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
like the narrator is outside and watching the train.

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
the narrator is outside and watching the train.

Simple mistake

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
like the narrator is outside and watching the train.

But when we read theHowever, in the most well-known English translation, it seems ¶
the narrator is outside andwhile watching the train.

But when we read the well-known English translation, it seems
that the narrator is outside and watching the train.

ButHowever, when we read in the well-known English translation, it seems
narrator is outside and watching the train.

This is interesting.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

Depending on a language, view point can be changed.


Depending on athe language, view point can beperspective is changed.

Depending on a language, view points (or the view point) can be changed.

view point is awkward and not right. Change to plural or add "the" for the words to flow better like a native speaker.

Depending on athe language, view pointhow we view locations can be changed.

Depending on a language,MORE NATURALLY: Different translations often bring to light different view point can be changeds.

Depending onthe a language, the view point can be changed.

Also, view point is okay, but the literary term is "point of view" or "perspective"

Depending on a language, view point can beof view changed differ.

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