heatedcanine's avatar
heatedcanine

July 20, 2024

2
Redundancy May Reduce International Miscommunication

I'm Japanese, and I'm learning English. My English is far from perfect, so I want to improve it. In order to imprive my English, I adopt to write something on LangCorrect, and I can learn from the corrections done by native English speakers.
As I said before that my English is far from perfect, what I'm writing here also contains a lot of mistakes, which may confuse you.
And as a result, I may not get adequate corrections.

In order to avoid such misunderstanding, adding "Native text" can contribute a lot.
Writing the same context in Japanese may help members whose mother tongue is English, and who are learning Japanese.
For that purpose, when I write the Japanese version as well, I need to write word-to-word translations or literal translations for that purpose.
However, it's a very annoying thing for everyone, so we tend to avoind writing our native tongue versions.

I think writing in a foreign language without your native toungue version without any misunderstanding for readers should be your final goal.
Therefore, when you become an advanced learner, you should avoid adding your native tongue version, from a certain viespoint, right?

In order to do that, I think redundancy expressions are a must in order to avoid miscommunication or misunderstanding.
A jump in logic is very difficult and can be the cause of miscommunication.
People tend to write something dogmatic, which is very difficult to understand by other people, not yourself (themselves).

That is why I've been writing this entry containing a lot of redundancy.
Probably I've gotten so far a lot of corrections and comments, regarding the redundancy of this entry.
However, you don't know if I avoided such redundant expressions, you would not understand what I wanted to say from the beginning.
Hahaha

In short, as a native English speaker, you may feel that my expressions in English are redundant, but it may contribute to help you understand English sentences written by a non-native English speaker.

(I wrote this entry, because some of entries written in Japanese without English version seems very difficult to understand, because I believe there is a jump in logic.)

I try to write the contradiction that the ideal, concise-and-to-the-point version can easily become something-that-doesn't-make-sense version when it comes to non-native speaker's entries.

My opinion is this: Feel free to write redundantly than causing miscommunication with the lack of words.


「冗長表現」と「言葉足らず」は紙一重かもしれない。
特に、自分の考えで何かをかくときに、独善的になりすぎて「言葉足らず」になり、相手に真意が伝わらないことが母語話者同士での会話でもよくある。
(特に夫婦の会話などで、夫婦喧嘩の原因となる)
外国語でのコミュニケーションでは、ちょっとした文法の誤りが、全く別の意味となって、ミスコミュニケーションをおこすことが良くある。

これを避けるためには、できるだけ「言葉足らず」にならないように、くどいくらいに、これでもかというぐらいに、しつこく冗長表現的に言う方が、意味は伝わることになる。
でも、長々と書いていると、「冗長表現である」と添削される羽目になる。

しかし、ノンネイティブスピーカーが不十分な語学力で書く場合は、「冗長表現」気味に書く必要があると思う。
簡潔にしてポイントを押さえた、「必要十分」な文章がかけるのは、ネイティブで、しかも、ネイティブの中でも限られた能力の高いヒトたちだけなのだから。

ネイティブからみて、冗長な文章、まわりくどい文章は、インターナショナルコミュニケーションの観点から考えれば、実は「まわりくどくはない」のかもしれません。

Corrections

Redundancy Mayight Help Reduce International Miscommunications

提案:同じ文章に「私」という言葉を複数回使うことは避けましょう。特に文章を書く場合は。(話す場合は大丈夫です。 ただし、英語の話し方は英語の書き方とは異なります) I'm Japanese, and I'am learning English.

My English is far from perfect, so I want to improve it.

In order to imprive my English, I adopt to write somethdo that, I have been writing on LangCorrect, and I canhope to learn from the corrections done by nativefluent English speakers.

NOTE: Some non-native English speakers are fully fluent. The question should be fluency, not country of origin.

As I said before that my English is far from perfect, what I'm writing here also contains a lot of mistakes, which may confuse you.SUGGESTION: Delete this sentence. 内容は冗長です。

MY GUESS And as a result, I may not get adequateenough corrections.

In order to avoid such misunderstandings, adding "Nthe "native text" can contributehelp a lot.

Writing the same context in Japanese may help members whose mother tongue is English, and who are learning Japanese.

For that purpose, wWhen I write the Japanese version as well,of my entries, often I nseedm to writeneed to word-to-word translations or literal translations for that purpose.

However, it's a is often very annoying thing for everyone, so we tend to, so many people avoind writing outheir native tongue versions.

I thinkFor non-fluent language learners, writing in a foreign language without youra native toungue version without any misunderstanding for readers should be your final goalmay give rise to misunderstandings.

Therefore, when you become an advancedSome people believe that advanced language learner, yous should avoid adding youtheir native tongue version, from a certain viespoint, right?

In order to do that, I think redundancy expressions are a must in order toHowever, a certain amount of redundancy can help avoid miscommunication or misunderstandings.

A jJumps in logic isare often very difficult and can be the cause ofuse miscommunication.

People tend to write somethingSome people write dogmatic still, which is veryoften difficult to understand by other people, not yourself (themselves)..

That is why I've been writing this entry containing a lot of redundancy.SUGGESTION: Delete this. Too much redundancy is tedious.

thealchemist's avatar
thealchemist

July 20, 2024

0

> NOTE: Some non-native English speakers are fully fluent. The question should be fluency, not country of origin

While that is true, on Langcorrect, you can ONLY correct a language if it is your native tongue

Redundancy May Reduce InternationUniversal Miscommunication

I'm Japanese, and I'm learning English.

My English is far from perfect, so I want to improve it.

In order to impriove my English, I adopt to've developed the habit of writeing something on LangCorrect, and I cawhere I can then learn from the corrections done by native English speakers.

As I said before that, my English is far from perfect. Ergo, what I'm writing here may also contains a lot of mistakes, which mayight confuse you.

And as a result, I may not get adequate corrections.

In order to avoid such misunderstanding, adding "Native text" can contribute a lot.

Writing the same context in Japanese may help members whose mother tongue is English, and who are learning Japanese.

For that purpose, when I write the Japanese version as well, I need to write word-to-word translations or literal translations for that purpose.

However, it's a very annoying thing for everyone, so we tend to avoind writing our native tongue versions.

I think writing in a foreign language without your native toungue version without any misunderstanding for readers should be your final goal.

Therefore, when you become an advanced learner, you should avoid adding your native tongue version; at least, from a certain vieswpoints, rightno?

そう思う!

In order to do thatTo do so, I think that redundancyt expressions are a mustkey in order to avoid miscommunication or misunderstanding.

A jump in logic is very difficult and can be the cause of miscommunication.

People tend to write something dogmatic, which is very difficult to understand by other people, not yourself (themselves). that are not the individual

That is why I've been writing this entry containing a lot of redundancvery redundant while writing this entry.

Probably I've gotten so far a lot of corrections and comments, regarding the redundancy of this entry.

僕にとって、この投稿には冗長表現ということじゃないと思う

Hahaha


In short, as a native English speaker, you may feel that my expressions in English are redundant, but it may contribute
toin helping you understand the English sentences written by a non-native English speaker.

(I wrote this entry, because some of entries written in Japanese without English version seems very difficult to understand, because I believe there is a jump in logic.)

僕だろう。。。

My opinion is this: Feel free to write redundantly than, as opposed to causing miscommunication with thedue to a lack of words. (?)

皮肉的に、この文章はミスコミュニケーションを起こした。(笑)でも、言いたいことが分かる。。。多分。(笑)

Feedback

レポートはめっちゃ強いけど、1つの質問がある。母語の版を作ったら、どうして添削者は手伝われるのこと分かる?一応、添削者は自分の母語が分からないし、自分の為だけそうじゃない?

thealchemist's avatar
thealchemist

July 20, 2024

0

*著作の為だけそうなんじゃない?

heatedcanine's avatar
heatedcanine

July 20, 2024

2

In order to prove it, I want you to write the English version of
レポートはめっちゃ強いけど、1つの質問がある。母語の版を作ったら、どうして添削者は手伝われるのこと分かる?一応、添削者は自分の母語が分からないし、自分の為だけそうじゃない?

Actually speaking, I don't understand what レポートはめっちゃ強いけど、means.
I understand 1つの質問がある。母語の版を作ったら、
But I don't understand どうして添削者は手伝われるのこと分かる?
I also don't understand 添削者は自分の母語が分からないし, which would probably the opposite.
I don't know 自分の為だけそうじゃない?

If you write the English version, at least, I can understand your English.
If I cannot understand your English version, it would be "out-of-the-question."
It is not the matter of your Japanese, but it's the matter of , for example, cultural differences, generation gaps, gender...Oops I think gender is the same.

I'll be able to explain more, if you provide me with your English version.
:)

heatedcanine's avatar
heatedcanine

July 20, 2024

2

I don't know *著作の為だけそうなんじゃない?, either. :(

heatedcanine's avatar
heatedcanine

July 20, 2024

2

逆の例をお示ししましょう。

My opinion is this: Feel free to write redundantly than causing miscommunication with the lack of words.
の日本語バージョンはこれです。
私の今回の主義主張はこれです:言葉足らずになってミスコミュニケーションになってしまうぐらいなら、回りくどく冗長になっても長々と書いたほうがマシなので、気にせずどんどん回りくどく書きましょう!

どうですか、日本語バージョンを読んだ方がわかるでしょう?

thealchemist's avatar
thealchemist

July 20, 2024

0

Might as well switch to English for this one
> レポートはめっちゃ強いけど、1つの質問がある。母語の版を作ったら、どうして添削者は手伝われるのこと分かる?一応、添削者は自分の母語が分からないし、自分の為だけそうじゃない?
What I *tried* (key word, tried lol) to say was as follows; Your Essay is really strong, but I have a question. If one were to create a version in their native language, how do you know that it would help the corrector? More or often than not, since the corrector doesn't understand the person's mother tongue, wouldn't it just be to the benefit of the person who wrote it (the native language version)?

thealchemist's avatar
thealchemist

July 20, 2024

0

> *著作の為だけそうなんじゃない?
I tried to clarify the last part of my sentence to refer to the author

thealchemist's avatar
thealchemist

July 20, 2024

0

どうですか、日本語バージョンを読んだ方がわかるでしょう?
はい!日本語バージョンを書いた時に、母語じゃなくても、言いたいことを理解できました!

heatedcanine's avatar
heatedcanine

July 20, 2024

2

>Your Essay is really strong, but
日本語で、「レポートが強い」とは言わないので、何のことか全くわからず、変換ミスとか誤字なのかも全く見当がつきませんが、Your Essay is really strong, butと英語で書かれていると、"strong" という表現にはあまりなじみがないけれども、たぶん「説得力がある」「自身に満ちた書き方をしている」「自分は正しいと決めてかかっている」というような意味であり、まあ、ほめているのか、sarcasmなのかのどちらかだろう、と解釈しました。

ははあ、おっしゃることがわかりました。
僕は日本語が母語で、英語は中上級だと思います。
ですから、日本語を書いてあって、英語のバージョンが書いてあると、補足説明になります。

しかし、僕は、韓国語や中国語、イタリア語は全く分かりません。だから、韓国人や中国人、イタリア人が日本語で書いた投稿を添削するのは、とても難しいです。
この場合、韓国人や中国人、イタリア人が母語で書いてあっても、基本的に僕の参考にはなりません。僕は中国語・韓国語・イタリア語を理解できないからです。
しかしそれでも、韓国語や中国語、イタリア語で書かれているバージョンを、Google Translateや、DeepL やChatGPTに日本語と英語に訳させてみると、言いたい事がわかる場合があります。

(極端な場合は、書かれている日本語を、Google Translateで英語に翻訳させて、英語の文章を見ると、理解できる場合もあります。Lol)

「ロゼッタストーン」を知ってますか。
「対訳」が書かれているので、他の言語への翻訳が可能になったわけです。
同様に、LangCorrectにおける、母語バージョンは、「ロゼッタストーン」のような役割を果たすので、重要なのです!!!

I think "the Rosetta Stone" is a good figurative explanation why the native language version is necessary.
Do you agree?

heatedcanine's avatar
heatedcanine

July 20, 2024

2

あなたは、日本人が英語で書いた投稿を添削するときに、英語で書いてある内容が理解できないときに、日本語バージョンを参考にしたことはありませんか?

heatedcanine's avatar
heatedcanine

July 20, 2024

2

>>どうですか、日本語バージョンを読んだ方がわかるでしょう?
>はい!日本語バージョンを書いた時に、母語じゃなくても、言いたいことを理解できました!

書いた時に---> 読んだ時に のtypoですよね。

thealchemist's avatar
thealchemist

July 20, 2024

0

>Do you agree?
はい!一言一句を聞き捨てなかったです。その説明で、説得力が上がりました!そして、僕の語学力が上がるって感じるし、本当に有難いです!
>日本語バージョンを参考にしたことはありませんか?
I don't usually do so cause I want to make sure that the correction I'm making is unbiased but I think I should do that more often. It might help in my own Japanese comprehension as well, as you said!

thealchemist's avatar
thealchemist

July 20, 2024

0

書いた時に---> 読んだ時に のtypoですよね。
あっちゃ!添削してくれてありがとうございます。自分の投稿じゃなくても、日本語の過ちを訂正することは有難い!

However, it's a very annoying thing for everyone, so we tend to avoind writing our native tongue versions.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

However, it's a is often very annoying thing for everyone, so we tend to, so many people avoind writing outheir native tongue versions.

I think writing in a foreign language without your native toungue version without any misunderstanding for readers should be your final goal.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

I thinkFor non-fluent language learners, writing in a foreign language without youra native toungue version without any misunderstanding for readers should be your final goalmay give rise to misunderstandings.

Therefore, when you become an advanced learner, you should avoid adding your native tongue version, from a certain viespoint, right?


Therefore, when you become an advanced learner, you should avoid adding your native tongue version; at least, from a certain vieswpoints, rightno?

そう思う!

Therefore, when you become an advancedSome people believe that advanced language learner, yous should avoid adding youtheir native tongue version, from a certain viespoint, right?

In order to do that, I think redundancy expressions are a must in order to avoid miscommunication or misunderstanding.


In order to do thatTo do so, I think that redundancyt expressions are a mustkey in order to avoid miscommunication or misunderstanding.

In order to do that, I think redundancy expressions are a must in order toHowever, a certain amount of redundancy can help avoid miscommunication or misunderstandings.

Redundancy May Reduce International Miscommunication


Redundancy May Reduce InternationUniversal Miscommunication

Redundancy Mayight Help Reduce International Miscommunications

I'm Japanese, and I'm learning English.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

提案:同じ文章に「私」という言葉を複数回使うことは避けましょう。特に文章を書く場合は。(話す場合は大丈夫です。 ただし、英語の話し方は英語の書き方とは異なります) I'm Japanese, and I'am learning English.

My English is far from perfect, so I want to improve it.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

In order to imprive my English, I adopt to write something on LangCorrect, and I can learn from the corrections done by native English speakers.


In order to impriove my English, I adopt to've developed the habit of writeing something on LangCorrect, and I cawhere I can then learn from the corrections done by native English speakers.

In order to imprive my English, I adopt to write somethdo that, I have been writing on LangCorrect, and I canhope to learn from the corrections done by nativefluent English speakers.

NOTE: Some non-native English speakers are fully fluent. The question should be fluency, not country of origin.

As I said before that my English is far from perfect, what I'm writing here also contains a lot of mistakes, which may confuse you.


As I said before that, my English is far from perfect. Ergo, what I'm writing here may also contains a lot of mistakes, which mayight confuse you.

As I said before that my English is far from perfect, what I'm writing here also contains a lot of mistakes, which may confuse you.SUGGESTION: Delete this sentence. 内容は冗長です。

And as a result, I may not get adequate corrections.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

MY GUESS And as a result, I may not get adequateenough corrections.

In order to avoid such misunderstanding, adding "Native text" can contribute a lot.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

In order to avoid such misunderstandings, adding "Nthe "native text" can contributehelp a lot.

Writing the same context in Japanese may help members whose mother tongue is English, and who are learning Japanese.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

This sentence has been marked as perfect!

For that purpose, when I write the Japanese version as well, I need to write word-to-word translations or literal translations for that purpose.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

For that purpose, wWhen I write the Japanese version as well,of my entries, often I nseedm to writeneed to word-to-word translations or literal translations for that purpose.

A jump in logic is very difficult and can be the cause of miscommunication.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

A jJumps in logic isare often very difficult and can be the cause ofuse miscommunication.

People tend to write something dogmatic, which is very difficult to understand by other people, not yourself (themselves).


People tend to write something dogmatic, which is very difficult to understand by other people, not yourself (themselves). that are not the individual

People tend to write somethingSome people write dogmatic still, which is veryoften difficult to understand by other people, not yourself (themselves)..

That is why I've been writing this entry containing a lot of redundancy.


That is why I've been writing this entry containing a lot of redundancvery redundant while writing this entry.

That is why I've been writing this entry containing a lot of redundancy.SUGGESTION: Delete this. Too much redundancy is tedious.

Probably I've gotten so far a lot of corrections and comments, regarding the redundancy of this entry.


Probably I've gotten so far a lot of corrections and comments, regarding the redundancy of this entry.

僕にとって、この投稿には冗長表現ということじゃないと思う

However, you don't know if I avoided such redundant expressions, you would not understand what I wanted to say from the beginning.


Hahaha In short, as a native English speaker, you may feel that my expressions in English are redundant, but it may contribute to help you understand English sentences written by a non-native English speaker.


Hahaha


In short, as a native English speaker, you may feel that my expressions in English are redundant, but it may contribute
toin helping you understand the English sentences written by a non-native English speaker.

(I wrote this entry, because some of entries written in Japanese without English version seems very difficult to understand, because I believe there is a jump in logic.)


(I wrote this entry, because some of entries written in Japanese without English version seems very difficult to understand, because I believe there is a jump in logic.)

僕だろう。。。

I try to write the contradiction that the ideal, concise-and-to-the-point version can easily become something-that-doesn't-make-sense version when it comes to non-native speaker's entries.


My opinion is this: Feel free to write redundantly than causing miscommunication with the lack of words.


My opinion is this: Feel free to write redundantly than, as opposed to causing miscommunication with thedue to a lack of words. (?)

皮肉的に、この文章はミスコミュニケーションを起こした。(笑)でも、言いたいことが分かる。。。多分。(笑)

Hahaha In short, as a native speaker, you may feel that my expressions are redundant, but it may contribute to help you understand English sentences written by a non-native English speaker.


I try to write the contradiction that the ideal, concise-and-to-the-point version can easily become something-that-doesn't-make-sense version when it comes to non-native speaker's entry.


Probably I got a lot of corrections and comments, regarding the redundancy of my entry.


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