akihello's avatar
akihello

May 29, 2021

0
About the three Japanese words: かすみ, きり, and もや

Today’s topic is the difference among three words, Kasumi(霞/かすみ), Kiri(霧/きり), and Moya(靄/もや).

-- 霞(かすみ/Kasumi): haze, mist; dimness(of sight);

-- 霧(きり/Kiri): fog, mist; spray;

-- 靄(もや/Moya): mist, haze;

{ ---- ref. from Jisho.org }

I didn’t know that, but they all are defined as ‘mist,’
I could agree with that somehow since they are similar to each other as a weather moisture condition.
However, they are different in sound and kanji characters, so I was interested in the difference and tried to think of it.

Now, I will talk about how I feel about these words or what I remember from them, away from a weather perspective.



# かすみ [ 霞 ] (Kasumi)

かすみ will be good goes with fantasy, myths, or fairytales.

 It reminds me of the phrase: 「仙人は、かすみを食って生きている」(Sen'nin ha, *kasumi* wo kutte ikite iru.)
( "Sennin(an immortal mountain hermit) survives eating Kasumi (mist around the top of mountains)" )

 ↑

Against that, About the phrase "仙人は、きりを食って生きている" (that is rephrased from "仙人は、かすみを食って生きている" replacing "かすみ" into "きり"), it sounds like physical mist and less mysterious feel. To put it in extreme terms, using きり would mean the 仙人(Sennin) is just a strange man, and the きり feels just the mist, water from the weather condition.

I think "かすみ" is put in words about the existence that happens far away from human beings. For example, it is like the mist of a mountain that is far from people.
That's why "かすみ" is easy to feel the distance, compared to "きり" or "もや."



# きり [ 霧 ] (Kiri)

In places not so beyond from people living, such as some forests or towns, the word “きり” will often suit.
Speaking of "きり," I remember the phrase "霧の街、ロンドン"(kiri no machi, rondon // a city of fog, London). When it comes to describing with "London" the town, "きり" seems to be the best word opposed to either "もや" or "かすみ." That’s because of the feeling from the word about the distance between the circumstance and people, I think.




# もや [ 靄 ] (Moya)

When I heard the word "もや," I could associate the word with the condition that the mind is vague. I much use or see the term to express as a metaphor, than an actual weather condition. Come to think of it, one of the onomatopoeia phrase "もやもや" includes "もや" as well. It might be related to the metaphoric meaning of "もや."

And I think you would intend to show more the unclear state rather than some moisture condition.


かすみ vs. きり vs. もや

今日お話したい内容は、かすみと、きりと、もや、これらの3つの言葉の違いについてです。
僕は知らなかったのですが、どれも「mist」と定義される事があるのですね。
気象(水分)の状態としては、たしかに似ているので、そうする気持ちも分かります。
ですが、これらの3つの言葉は、それぞれ音も漢字も違いますね。


これらの言葉を聞いてどう感じるか、または、どんな事を連想するのかについて、天気予報とは別の視点からお話していきたいと思います。


★ かすみ【 霞 】

「かすみ」は、神聖なものとか、霊的なもの、浮世ばなれしたもの、ファンタジーなどと相性がいい。



「仙人は、かすみを食って生きている」

、と、言うことがある。

 ↑

それに対して、「仙人は、きりを食って生きている」(「仙人は、かすみを食って生きている」の「かすみ(霞)」を「きり(霧)」に言い換えたもの)って言ったら、なんだか不思議な感じがしなくて、実際的な霧を想像するでしょう。極端な言い方をすれば、「きり(霧)」を使った時には、その「きり」はただの霧で、気象条件による水にしか感じられないし、仙人もただの変な人みたいにすら、感じてしまうかもしれません。


思ったのですが、「かすみ」とは、人間から遠く離れた場所で起こる存在を言葉にしたものではないかと思います。例えば、人から遠く離れた山の霧のように、こちらから距離のあるような。

ですから、「かすみ」の方が「きり」や「もや」よりも、人々からの距離が離れていることを感じる、…と思います。



◇ きり【 霧 】

森や街など、人それほど離れていない場所に発生する気象的な現象について言う時、「きり(霧)」の言葉を使う頻度は高いと思います。
霧といえば、「霧の街、ロンドン」という言葉を思い出しました。「ロンドン」という街に合わせる言葉としては、「もや」や「かすみ」は、あまり使われなさそうです。それは、「きり」という言葉から感じる、状況と人との距離感のせいでしょう。



◎ もや 【 靄 】


「もや」は、自分の頭の中とかにかかる事を連想しやすい。自然現象としての「もや」よりも、そういう事によって起こる「よく見えない」という状態について言う言葉だと感じます。もしかしたら、同じ音を使う「もやもや」という言葉がある事が関係しているかもしれません。

また、「もや」は、気象について言う事よりも、「よく見えない」という状態を言う事の方を少し優先している気がします。

japanesewritingassociatemetaphor
Corrections

Today’s topic is the difference amongbetween three words,: Kasumi(霞/かすみ), Kiri(霧/きり), and Moya(靄/もや).

The 'difference between three words' is better. I don't think I've heard anyone say 'the difference among'.
Also, when listing objects, you can use a colon ( : ).

-- 霞(かすみ/Kasumi): haze, mist; dimness(of sight);

-- 霧(きり/Kiri): fog, mist; spray;

-- 靄(もや/Moya): mist, haze;

{ ---- ref.

from Jisho.org }

I didn’t know thatis, but they all are defined as ‘mist,.

It sounds odd to say 'I didn't know that', when you haven't mentioned the thing that you didn't know yet.
Also, there should be a full stop at the end.

I could agree with that somehow since they are similar to each other as a weather moisture conditionll have to do with moist weather.

'Weather moisture condition' is an awkward term that English speakers don't use. 'they all have to do with moist weather' sounds a bit more natural.

Also, I'm not sure what 'somehow' is meant to mean here? 「somehow」「なぜか」とか「なんとか」という意味らしいです。It sounds a bit strange here, as if you aren't entirely sure why you agree.

However, they arhave different in sounds and kanji characters, so I was interested in the difference and tried to think ofing about it.

'They are different in sound and kanji characters' is OK, but it sounds a little awkward to me. 'Tried to think about it' is also OK, but 'tried thinking about it' sounds more natural.

The difference between 'to think about' and 'to think of', is a little hard to explain, but here, 'to think about the difference' sounds more like you're deliberately considering it. 「To think about」とは「考える」という意味でしょう?

Now, I will talk about how I feel aboutwhen I hear these words or, and what I remember from them, away from a weather perspectiveassociate with them, outside of the perspective you might get on a weather report.

'Remember from them' sounds odd - it sounds like you're memorising the words for a test or something.

'Away from a weather perspective' is also odd. 「weather perspective」とは「天気の視点」のような意味らしいです。You could phrase it as 'outside of a weather-related perspective', but that sounds a bit unnatural.

かすみ will be good goes withgoes well with for fantasy, myths, or fairytales.¶
OR: かすみ is a good fit for
fantasy, myths, or fairytales.

'will be good goes' doesn't make sense. You could say 'will go well with', but the future tense of 'will' is strange. It implies it doesn't currently go well with, but only will in the future. So 'goes well with' is better.

'Goes well with' sounds a little odd, because you often hear it for things like food (for example, 'Ketchup goes well with hamburgers'), so 'is a good fit' sounds more natural.

Also, even English speakers often make this mistake, so it's not an absolute rule, but when using 'good' as an adverb, it should become 'well.' (日本語では、「good」が「いい」で、「well」が「よく」でしょう).

It reminds me of the phrase: 「仙人は、かすみを食って生きている」(Sen'nin ha, *kasumi* wo kutte ikite iru. )

( “A Sennin (an immortal mountain hermit) survives eating Kasumi (mist around the top of mountains” )  ↑ Against that, About

 ↑¶

In contrast, in
the phrase “仙人は、きりを食って生きている”(that is (a rephrased fromversion of ”仙人は、かすみを食って生きている” that replacinges “かすみ” intowith ”きり”), it sounds like physical mist and has a less mysterious feel. To put it in extreme termsbe blunt, using きり would mean the 仙人(Sennin) is just a strange man, and the きり feelis just the mist, water from themist as in weather condition. vapor.¶

I think “かすみ” istries to put into words about the existthe sencse that happensof a place far away from human beings. For example, it is like the mist of a mountain that is far from people. civilization.¶
That's why “かすみ” is easy to feel the distance,has more of a sense of seclusion compared to “きり” or “もや.”



◇ きり【 霧 】(Kiri) In places not so beyond from

The word “きり” often suits places not so far from where
people livinge, such as some forests or towns, the word “きり” will often suit.
Speaking of “きり,” I remember the phrase “霧の街、ロンドン”(kiri no machi, rondon // athe city of fog, London). When it comes to describing with “London” the town, “きり” seems to be the best word, as opposed to either “もや” or “かすみ.” That’s because of the feeling from the word about the distance between the circumstance and peoplethe word gives a feeling of distance between the place in question and civilization, I think.




◎ もや 【 靄 】(Moya)

When I heard the word “もや,” I could associate the word with the condition that the mind is vague. I much use orit has a sense of your mind being vague. I often see the term to expressused as a metaphor, rather than an actual weather condition. Come to think of it, one of the onomatopoeia phrase “もやもや" includes “もや” as well. It might be related to the metaphorical meaning of “もや.”

And I think you would intend to show more the unclear state rather than some moisture conditionit has more of a sense of something being unclear than something to do with the weather.

すみませんが、この一部がなんとなく一つの大きな段落にさせたから、フィードバックを一文ごとに説明することがちょっと難しいですけど…でも、説明しようとします。

'To put it in extreme terms' makes sense, but is a bit of a strange expression. 'To be blunt' would be better I think.

'The existence that happens far away from people' is also odd - we usually don't talk about 'the existence' in English. A more specific word such as 'person' or 'place' is better.

'Mist of the mountain far from people' is fine, but something about 'people' sounds weak. 'Civilization' (which can have a sense of 'where people live, as opposed to the wilderness') might be a better fit here.

'That's why “かすみ” is easy to feel the distance' - I think it's better to say 'that's why かすみ has more of a sense of seclusion'. 'Distance' implies more, the mist is traveling a long way. 'Seclusion' is more of a sense of lonely distance, far from human beings.

'distance between the circumstance and people' - I'm not sure what circumstance is meant to mean here. As in, the place where the mist is?

'I often use or see the term' sounds awkward. It's better to just say 'I often see the term used as...'

'Metaphorical' was misspelled as 'metaphoric'.

Feedback

This was a very interesting comparison of the nuances of the different words! Your spelling and grammar are good, and the main problem is just sentences sounding a bit unclear or awkward. It was a bit hard to explain why some things were wrong, but if you want a more detailed explanation for anything, ask me and I will try to explain better.

akihello's avatar
akihello

June 1, 2021

0

I could agree with that somehow since they are similar to each other as a weather moisture conditionll have to do with moist weather.

I didn’t know much about "have to do with (something),” meaning like “to be involved with”.
Thank you for the detailed explanation.

from Jisho.org }


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

About the three Japanese words: かすみ, きり, and もや


Today’s topic is the difference among three words, Kasumi(霞/かすみ), Kiri(霧/きり), and Moya(靄/もや).


Today’s topic is the difference amongbetween three words,: Kasumi(霞/かすみ), Kiri(霧/きり), and Moya(靄/もや).

The 'difference between three words' is better. I don't think I've heard anyone say 'the difference among'. Also, when listing objects, you can use a colon ( : ).

-- 霞(かすみ/Kasumi): haze, mist; dimness(of sight);


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

-- 霧(きり/Kiri): fog, mist; spray;


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

-- 靄(もや/Moya): mist, haze;


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

{ ---- ref.


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

I didn’t know that, but they all are defined as ‘mist,’


I didn’t know thatis, but they all are defined as ‘mist,.

It sounds odd to say 'I didn't know that', when you haven't mentioned the thing that you didn't know yet. Also, there should be a full stop at the end.

I could agree with that somehow since they are similar to each other as a weather moisture condition.


I could agree with that somehow since they are similar to each other as a weather moisture conditionll have to do with moist weather.

'Weather moisture condition' is an awkward term that English speakers don't use. 'they all have to do with moist weather' sounds a bit more natural. Also, I'm not sure what 'somehow' is meant to mean here? 「somehow」「なぜか」とか「なんとか」という意味らしいです。It sounds a bit strange here, as if you aren't entirely sure why you agree.

However, they are different in sound and kanji characters, so I was interested in the difference and tried to think of it.


However, they arhave different in sounds and kanji characters, so I was interested in the difference and tried to think ofing about it.

'They are different in sound and kanji characters' is OK, but it sounds a little awkward to me. 'Tried to think about it' is also OK, but 'tried thinking about it' sounds more natural. The difference between 'to think about' and 'to think of', is a little hard to explain, but here, 'to think about the difference' sounds more like you're deliberately considering it. 「To think about」とは「考える」という意味でしょう?

Now, I will talk about how I feel about these words or what I remember from them, away from a weather perspective.


Now, I will talk about how I feel aboutwhen I hear these words or, and what I remember from them, away from a weather perspectiveassociate with them, outside of the perspective you might get on a weather report.

'Remember from them' sounds odd - it sounds like you're memorising the words for a test or something. 'Away from a weather perspective' is also odd. 「weather perspective」とは「天気の視点」のような意味らしいです。You could phrase it as 'outside of a weather-related perspective', but that sounds a bit unnatural.

★ かすみ【 霞 】(Kasumi)


かすみ will be good goes with fantasy, myths, or fairytales.


かすみ will be good goes withgoes well with for fantasy, myths, or fairytales.¶
OR: かすみ is a good fit for
fantasy, myths, or fairytales.

'will be good goes' doesn't make sense. You could say 'will go well with', but the future tense of 'will' is strange. It implies it doesn't currently go well with, but only will in the future. So 'goes well with' is better. 'Goes well with' sounds a little odd, because you often hear it for things like food (for example, 'Ketchup goes well with hamburgers'), so 'is a good fit' sounds more natural. Also, even English speakers often make this mistake, so it's not an absolute rule, but when using 'good' as an adverb, it should become 'well.' (日本語では、「good」が「いい」で、「well」が「よく」でしょう).

It reminds me of the phrase: 「仙人は、かすみを食って生きている」(Sen'nin ha, *kasumi* wo kutte ikite iru. )


This sentence has been marked as perfect!

( “Sennin(an immortal mountain hermit) survives eating Kasumi(mist around the top of mountains” )  ↑ Against that, About the phrase “仙人は、きりを食って生きている”(that is rephrased from ”仙人は、かすみを食って生きている” replacing “かすみ” into ”きり”), it sounds like physical mist and less mysterious feel. To put it in extreme terms, using きり would mean the 仙人(Sennin) is just a strange man, and the きり feels just the mist, water from the weather condition. I think “かすみ” is put in words about the existence that happens far away from human beings. For example, it is like the mist of a mountain that is far from people. That's why “かすみ” is easy to feel the distance, compared to “きり” or “もや.” ◇ きり【 霧 】(Kiri) In places not so beyond from people living, such as some forests or towns, the word “きり” will often suit. Speaking of “きり,” I remember the phrase “霧の街、ロンドン”(kiri no machi, rondon // a city of fog, London). When it comes to describing with “London” the town, “きり” seems to be the best word opposed to either “もや” or “かすみ.” That’s because of the feeling from the word about the distance between the circumstance and people, I think. ◎ もや 【 靄 】(Moya) When I heard the word “もや,” I could associate the word with the condition that the mind is vague. I much use or see the term to express as a metaphor, than an actual weather condition. Come to think of it, one of the onomatopoeia phrase “もやもや" includes “もや” as well. It might be related to the metaphoric meaning of “もや.” And I think you would intend to show more the unclear state rather than some moisture condition.


( “A Sennin (an immortal mountain hermit) survives eating Kasumi (mist around the top of mountains” )  ↑ Against that, About

 ↑¶

In contrast, in
the phrase “仙人は、きりを食って生きている”(that is (a rephrased fromversion of ”仙人は、かすみを食って生きている” that replacinges “かすみ” intowith ”きり”), it sounds like physical mist and has a less mysterious feel. To put it in extreme termsbe blunt, using きり would mean the 仙人(Sennin) is just a strange man, and the きり feelis just the mist, water from themist as in weather condition. vapor.¶

I think “かすみ” istries to put into words about the existthe sencse that happensof a place far away from human beings. For example, it is like the mist of a mountain that is far from people. civilization.¶
That's why “かすみ” is easy to feel the distance,has more of a sense of seclusion compared to “きり” or “もや.”



◇ きり【 霧 】(Kiri) In places not so beyond from

The word “きり” often suits places not so far from where
people livinge, such as some forests or towns, the word “きり” will often suit.
Speaking of “きり,” I remember the phrase “霧の街、ロンドン”(kiri no machi, rondon // athe city of fog, London). When it comes to describing with “London” the town, “きり” seems to be the best word, as opposed to either “もや” or “かすみ.” That’s because of the feeling from the word about the distance between the circumstance and peoplethe word gives a feeling of distance between the place in question and civilization, I think.




◎ もや 【 靄 】(Moya)

When I heard the word “もや,” I could associate the word with the condition that the mind is vague. I much use orit has a sense of your mind being vague. I often see the term to expressused as a metaphor, rather than an actual weather condition. Come to think of it, one of the onomatopoeia phrase “もやもや" includes “もや” as well. It might be related to the metaphorical meaning of “もや.”

And I think you would intend to show more the unclear state rather than some moisture conditionit has more of a sense of something being unclear than something to do with the weather.

すみませんが、この一部がなんとなく一つの大きな段落にさせたから、フィードバックを一文ごとに説明することがちょっと難しいですけど…でも、説明しようとします。 'To put it in extreme terms' makes sense, but is a bit of a strange expression. 'To be blunt' would be better I think. 'The existence that happens far away from people' is also odd - we usually don't talk about 'the existence' in English. A more specific word such as 'person' or 'place' is better. 'Mist of the mountain far from people' is fine, but something about 'people' sounds weak. 'Civilization' (which can have a sense of 'where people live, as opposed to the wilderness') might be a better fit here. 'That's why “かすみ” is easy to feel the distance' - I think it's better to say 'that's why かすみ has more of a sense of seclusion'. 'Distance' implies more, the mist is traveling a long way. 'Seclusion' is more of a sense of lonely distance, far from human beings. 'distance between the circumstance and people' - I'm not sure what circumstance is meant to mean here. As in, the place where the mist is? 'I often use or see the term' sounds awkward. It's better to just say 'I often see the term used as...' 'Metaphorical' was misspelled as 'metaphoric'.

# かすみ [ 霞 ] (Kasumi)


( "Sennin(an immortal mountain hermit) survives eating Kasumi (mist around the top of mountains)" )



Against that, About the phrase "仙人は、きりを食って生きている" (that is rephrased from "仙人は、かすみを食って生きている" replacing "かすみ" into "きり"), it sounds like physical mist and less mysterious feel.


To put it in extreme terms, using きり would mean the 仙人(Sennin) is just a strange man, and the きり feels just the mist, water from the weather condition.


I think "かすみ" is put in words about the existence that happens far away from human beings.


For example, it is like the mist of a mountain that is far from people.


That's why "かすみ" is easy to feel the distance, compared to "きり" or "もや."


# きり [ 霧 ] (Kiri)


In places not so beyond from people living, such as some forests or towns, the word “きり” will often suit.


Speaking of "きり," I remember the phrase "霧の街、ロンドン"(kiri no machi, rondon // a city of fog, London).


When it comes to describing with "London" the town, "きり" seems to be the best word opposed to either "もや" or "かすみ."


That’s because of the feeling from the word about the distance between the circumstance and people, I think.


# もや [ 靄 ] (Moya)


When I heard the word "もや," I could associate the word with the condition that the mind is vague.


I much use or see the term to express as a metaphor, than an actual weather condition.


Come to think of it, one of the onomatopoeia phrase "もやもや" includes "もや" as well.


It might be related to the metaphoric meaning of "もや.


"


And I think you would intend to show more the unclear state rather than some moisture condition.


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